•  Audio in Arabic language

•  Text transcript in English & Arabic


Ahmed Al Koseem is one of the most important and renowned traditional artists from the Houran region of southern Syria. Originally from the city of Al-Harak in Daraa, Syria, Al Koseem began singing at local weddings toward the end of the 1990s and recorded his first tape in 1998, with many more to follow. In the early 2000s, Al Koseem began working with the Music Box International record company, who produced and distributed many of his cassettes and CDs, helping him build a reputation that secured his popularity in many Arab countries such as Jordan, the Emirates and Qatar, among others. Throughout his career, Al Koseem has held on to the heritage of the Houran region and worked hard to preserve and disseminate it to the widest possible audience. Al Koseem left left Syria in 2011, resettling in Irbid, Jordan. His artistic activity continues within the framework available to him in his exile.

Syrian Cassette Archives spoke extensively with Ahmed Al Koseem in August of 2021 – resulting in this highly insightful and in-depth interview conducted by Yamen Mekdad, which we are honored to present here.



Yamen: First of all, warm greetings. It’s my honor to sit down and record an interview with you, Mr. Ahmed Al-Koseem – the great artist and star of the Houran. I’d like to start by giving an introduction for some of those in the audience who might not know you…

Mr. Ahmed Al Koseem is one of the most important traditional folk music artists from the region of the Houran in southern Syria. He is one of the artists responsible for preserving, reviving and elevating the local heritage to a large audience; disseminating it throughout Syria, and then regionally, to the Arab Gulf, and globally as well. Mr. Koseem, thank you for sharing your time with us for this interview.

Ahmed: My dear, Mr. Yamen, I’m very thankful to you and brother Mark, for giving me the opportunity to be with two good people. Thank you both.

Yamen: Thank you. We would like to start with a question. When and how did you become interested in music in general?

Ahmed: With regard to my interest in music, of course, throughout my school days, the elementary school days, we used to learn under the guidance of our teacher, Samih Kasabirah – may God rest his soul. There were choir groups and school bands there, and of course, a choir as well. So we had a sort of musical culture. But because of the circumstances, let us say the conditions of life at the time, and the specific living conditions we had, one could not continue pursuing their studies or education, even, for example, to develop a hobby in the sciences. So most of our musical knowledge was derived from popular concerts we would witness, or through artists whom we would meet at those musical events.

As for my singing, it began during the festivities in our town of Herak. I refer to the public festivities of family and relatives, and multiple popular parties, where we used to participate with songs. At that time, I noticed that the music that most drew the attention of people in the Houran and surrounding areas, and what moved them the most, was the heritage music. And eventually, I found that this heritage even had a marketing potential outside of the Houran region, and that there were people abroad who cared about the issue of heritage and were interested in traditional songs. I eventually became known – praise be to God – in Jordan, and then in the Gulf countries, and thank God, I even reached Europe and America. The evidence is that Brother Mark is currently talking to us and we are discussing the matter.

Yamen: Exactly, with great interest on his part – and he’s not alone. When I moved to London, I got acquainted with the world of folk music researchers. There was a lot of interest in Syrian music in general, and the music of the Houran and the whole region – even interest from within the new generation of electronic music producers and other music producers (world music) who were very interested in the sound, because, as you said, it goes back hundreds, if not thousands of years of accumulated civilization. The specific sounds of a region reveal an expression of the civilization of that region.

So, in your youth, in your hometown of Herak, how did you used to listen to music? for example, was it on the village radio? On vinyl records? At home on CDs? Were there CD players available for use? What were your experiences with these things?

Ahmed: Radio or tape recorder only. There were no records, videos or CDs. There was only radio, and the cassette recorder – and the cassettes we could get, which of course, were mainly tapes of old singers who used to sing folk heritage – and I admired their style. It touched on reality – touched the conscience. That is the thing that made me, as you said, go in this direction. So, the answer to your question is, through a radio cassette-recorder and a black and white TV, in the beginning. Back then, there wasn't even any interest from Syria regarding Hourani heritage compared to what there was from Jordanian television. We used to hear about Hourani heritage on Jordanian TV, but we never heard any such thing on Syrian TV.

Yamen: Right. To confirm, vinyl records were there, because they existed before cassettes, but they weren't available in the region of Herak in general?

Ahmed: They weren't available in the region. I mean, gramophones or records. They weren't around.

Yamen: OK, but on the radio, for example, what did you hear? Would you listen to certain artists that you remember, other than folk music? For example, do you remember the names of famous artists who went on the radio singing folk, or other Arab classical singers?

Ahmed: Yes, on television exclusively. Of course, on the radio we would mostly hear Rahbaniyat, Fairouz, Wadih al Safi, Zaki Nassif, Nasri Shams al-Din, Muhammad Maree, the Lebanese singers mostly. And there were Syrian singers, of course. In the past, we only listened to them on the TV. We were more familiar with Jordanians, such as the popular artist – may God rest his soul –Tawfiq Nimri, who was one of the biggest contributors to the preservation of heritage – and he preserved it in the correct form. His preservation of heritage was done in a wondrous, strange style … an innovative style that delivered heritage to the population. God rest his soul, I’m one of those people who loved him and watched Jordanian TV whenever his songs were on.

Yamen: Nice! And he is Jordanian? Tawfiq Al-Nimri?

Ahmed: Jordanian, yes.

Yamen: He sang in the genre of the Hourani music? And he was from the region of the Houran?

Ahmed: Yes, of course. He was from Irbid, from the town Al Husn, ‘the fort’, which is in the plain of the Houran. And do you know those poets who recite verses with accompaniment from the rababa instrument? – rababa poets from the mountains and valleys of the Houran, such as the late artist Fahd Balan. He had an interest in heritage, in collaboration with people whom we used to listen to… people like the artist Saad Altheeb – may God have mercy on his soul. But we never received anything related to heritage over the radio. Only on Jordanian TV. On the radio, we’d sometimes listen to Fahd Balan. But in my time, the radio would mostly play a wide variety of songs by Tunisian and Moroccan singers, etc. For example, the Algerian singer Rabah Driassa. We’d always hear Nejmeh Qatbeiah on the radio. We’d hear Mohamed Abdel Wahab and Doukkali (the messenger of love), and singers from Lebanon - but these were the only things that used to reach us, unfortunately.

Yamen: And this was during which years?

Ahmed: 1982, 83, 84, etc. I mean my childhood years.

Yamen: Did Egyptian classical music like Umm Kulthum and Abdel Wahab and others have an impact? Because I felt that you mentioned a lot of names that may not be familiar to many people – musicians from Morocco and Algeria...

Ahmed: I speak of a certain era – the era, let‘s say, of the radio and cassette. Later, when we became more aware of the scene, of course we started listening to Umm Kulthum, Karem Mahmoud, and Mohamad Abdel Wahab, and to a lot of Syrian singers, like Mayada Al-Hinnawi. There are many singers and artists which we adore and love.

Yamen: And then returning to the cassette period; Do you remember the first cassette you dealt with, or saw, or bought? What was it? Because radio, as you explained, was the window in which you’d hear music from Morocco, and Algeria, Jordan, Lebanon such, and even Egypt. But when it comes to cassettes, what is the first memory of yours related to the cassette?

Ahmed: My first memory related to the cassette is one from (Iraqi singer) Saadoun Jaber. He was popular in those days – like fire. Then through Saadoun Jaber, we got to know about other singers in Iraq. For example, Saad Tawfiq al-Baghdadi, Saad al-Hilli, or Elias Khader, and Mahmoud Anwar, for example. We got to know that there were many singers in Iraq, and began liking the colorful Iraqi styles.

But the biggest, most important thing for me in those days, for example, was when someone from here, from the Houran, would travel – to Libya, for instance – I would ask them to bring back an example; a cassette representing Libyan heritage. Once, my cousin was in Libya, and asked if there was anything I’d like him to bring back. I asked him to bring a cassette or two of what they sing in Libya. For instance, what they sing in festivities and parties there. I didn’t want to hear about academic singers. I wanted him to bring me something like rabab music or buzuk, or flute. So he brought back two cassettes for me.

Yamen: Do you remember what they were?

Ahmed: Yes, of course! One was of Bu Abaab, a popular Libyan singer. And the other cassette was of Awad al Maliki, also a Libyan singer. And he also brought back a cassette of Libyan singer Mohammed Hassan, who had a big interest in heritage music.

Yamen: Really nice! So, since childhood you’ve listened to music from Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Iraq, etc.

Ahmed: I adore, I adore, I adore anything called heritage! I adore anything called heritage!

Yamen: Very nice! My mother is of Libyan origin – born in Damascus. My grandfather moved from Libya when he was a boy in 1903. I have this Libyan side, so I’m very happy to hear about this heritage of Libya. I personally appreciate it.

Ahmed: I sing from the Libyan heritage, such as their majroda music, which is a genre there similar to one here in the Houran called aldehah. In Libya they call it the alsahij. It’s in the majroda genre, with verses like; “Welcome, welcome, you, whose eyes are black, and wearing necklaces…welcome, oh the eyeliner of eyes!”

Yamen: “Oh welcome, oh the eyeliner of eyes” … Oh, may that voice be blessed.

Ahmed: I love this genre they sing in Libya. The singer I adore most from Egypt is Mohamed Mounir.

Yamen: Mohamed Mounir is wonderful!

Ahmed: Mohamed Mounir – why? Because he was one of the people who cared about heritage. He was singing the heritage of Al-Nubi from the region in Egypt inhabited by Nubians…Nubian heritage. There were also saidi artists. One saidi artist called Rais Metkal Knawy, from the area of Jana, sings a popular song.

Yamen: Right, right.

Ahmed: As I mentioned, it was the thing that reached us the most, and I would love hearing it. Of course, there was also the Rahbani brothers, Zaki Nassif, Wadih Al-Safi and Nasri Shams Al-Din – all those artists who tended more towards heritage than classical songs! If you followed their plays, it’s possible that in the play there was something classical, but the plays were all telling the story of something called heritage. Even the music of Fairouz, if you go back to it, you find many traditional songs. The Lebanese composer Zaki Nassif was talking solely about heritage.

Yamen: To clarify, even when they worked in plays, they used to do something classical. It was classic in a Lebanese style, not the European understanding of classical. They do classics from the spirit of the region. They created something called contemporary Lebanese music, that is, based on the historical and heritage elements of Lebanon, and this is something, we are losing right now, unfortunately, but …

Ahmed: Herein lies the bottom line! If you want someone to listen to something traditional for example, let us say, you won’t find something purely embodying heritage, because they combined modern music, and old words, and old work, and made a hybrid that came out as a wonderful mixture. But unfortunately, we in Syria lacked and missed people who were concerned with this type of heritage work, and who could be responsible for developing and spreading it…unfortunately! This sort of music was limited to appearances at the annual festivals of Bosra, or the Palmyra Festival. I mean, every year or two you’d have one chance at those festivals to present audiences whatever heritage work you had – all within a limited time frame. They did not give you space to play in, or operate in a way that you might desire.

Yamen: Right. You mentioned something about how when you first learned about music and started singing at school, and your choral experiences with your teacher in the town of Herak. Could you talk about that period and your experience with singing, and what you felt towards that, and how it attracted you? And how did you start becoming more serious in regards to your pursuit of music?

Ahmed: You know, at first it started as a joke. As students in second or third grade, Samih, our music professor, would ask us to get up and sing. Of course, through his expertise, he knew which students would perform well. He’d call on a student to sing, and they would either succeed or not. Out of every student who would try and sing, three from every class were chosen. So from that school, you’d have fifteen or twenty people who excelled that he’d select to be in his choral group. At that age, third or fourth grade, if you were chosen, of course it attracted you to the topic! The music lesson then had to become a holy lesson for you. You had to listen and learn, and not drop out of the teacher’s chorus. You were compelled to develop your artistic skills, in order to improve to a higher level.

So that was, for me, the most important experience of my life - an experience from an elementary grade that makes you someone who wants to do something - to produce something. Pursuing music seriously wasn’t a very common thing back then. In those days, you couldn’t do that comfortably. But I felt that I needed to be a productive person – one who contributes something substantial to society, and do it well! At that age, you don't have the natural inclination to pursue something like that – but being one of only thirty people chosen from the entire village, it was a great thing. By being given that opportunity, one developed the determination to focus on the music. That was a big, big achievement.

Yamen: And where were you singing? Were there school parties, for example? Did you sing at village festivals? What were your activities then?

Ahmed: For example, we would made plays, or something related to the heritage of Hasad. At the groom’s party we’d sing about the people of the Houran, their customs and traditions, and how they would apply Henna on the groom and bride. Then they would go ask the bride, and relay what they had to sing when they’d reach the groom’s parents’ house. They used to sing for the groom. it was a big, strange, wondrous world, and every time you went deep into it, you’d fall even deeper. Much deeper. All of that made me understand later, that in the Houran, regarding heritage, everyone started there - and reached the people - and the Houran is still a region that so much heritage came out of.

Yamen: Is there still a huge amount of heritage that was never published?

Ahmed: A lot, a lot, a lot!

Yamen: With the choir, which years did you spend?

Ahmed: Until eighth grade, or a year after. Then I went to Damascus to work with my father. He had been working in Kuwait, but when the Gulf invasion happened (1991), he went to Damascus and I had to leave school to go work with him there. As a result, I missed three or four years. Then, when I started going back to my town at the age of 16 or 17, I would be invited to sing at relatives parties. And so it began. And to this day, I continue to sing at parties and celebrations and festivals, and such.

Yamen: When you started participating in events in Herak, and then in the Houran, how did you end up recording your first cassette?

Ahmed: We had a cassette shop, known well in the province of Daraa, which specialized only in shaabi (popular) works, like mejwez and aljene, and such. There was a man there called Mohammed Al Bahlul. He, in fact, encouraged me to record my first cassette. That was in 1998 or 1999 – the year my first cassette came out.

Yamen: Can you remember the name of the shop?

Ahmed: It was in the Square of Bosra, Daraa. The owner of the shop was Muhammad Al Bahlul, from Alghara Alsharqyia.

Yamen: Do you remember the name of the shop? Or the production company? Was it a production company, or just a cassette dealer?

Ahmed: Look, things were simple as they were, but when you would enter the store, you’d see the huge amount of popular and foreign singers available, and in those days, you felt as though you were entering an entire production company.

Yamen: So he encouraged you to record your first cassette. Can you tell us where you recorded it? Where did the recording happen, who played with you, what were the songs on the cassette, and what did you title the cassette?

Ahmed: There was a popular singer from Qunaitra called Abu Sultan. You can say that all of his songs were improvisational in nature. At that time, I wasn’t paid much attention to when it came to recording. Only when they saw me with that person singing improvisations, did they want to introduce me to Abu Sultan. Our first meeting was in Herak, at the Khatib family wedding - at the wedding of a young man called Mahmoud Alkhatib. That was the first collaboration between Abu Sultan and I.

The session was three hours long. It was a call and response session, during which I had to return his singing and he had to return mine. The cassette released from this wedding was special, in that it featured, for the first time in the history of the Houran, a collaborative effort between two popular singers - a session between Ahmed Al Koseem and Abu Sultan. Such zajal-style poetry would reach us from Sheikh mount, from Lebanon, from the likes of singers Zein Shueib and Zaghloul Aldamour, and other such singers of zajal poetry. Previously, the Houran only had such collaborative dialogues; not from popular artists, but between the citizens.

For instance, your father and my father might go to a party and each would sing a line. That’s what they called art. They would each come up with a line and then return them to each other in a playful manner, so to create some joy. It was a beautiful thing. So, this cassette was in the style of those dialogues, but for the first time, between two popular singers in the Houran. And the cassette spread widely.

Yamen: So, in zajal singing, there was slander and praise, how was it here? Was it the same way?

Ahmed: No, no.

Yamen: That’s why I’m asking, I mean, there wasn’t such a precedent!

Ahmed: No, the meetings were the pinnacle of friendliness and politeness. If one wanted to sing about the plains, he described the plains. Then I had to describe the plains in the same style. If started to describe a brown girl, I had to sing about a brown girl. If he wanted to sing about a white girl, I had to respond with verses about a white girl.

When having these dialogues, there were verbal altercations, of course, that would be agreed upon before the party. For instance, “You have to say this or that, and then I’ll say such and such...” As for the dialogue, it was usually between a person who would choose the sky, and a person who would choose the earth, and such. One singer might choose to sing about the plains, and the other would choose the mountains. One would choose the land, and another would choose the sea, etc. And when they sang, one might choose the brown girl, while another would choose the white girl. One would choose the tall one, another would choose the short one, and each one praised the subject in his own way.

Yamen: And this cassette came out in 1998?

Ahmed: Approximately 1998 or 1999.

Yamen: And was this your first commercially recorded cassette?

Ahmed: Yes.

Yamen: The recording was at the wedding in Herak, as you mentioned?

Ahmed: Yes - at that wedding they brought a recorder, and recorded this cassette.

Yamen: Simply, a cassette recorder brought to the party? Or were there some other technicalities?

Ahmed: At first, that was the only setup. Later, things evolved, and we had to get a computer and install recording programs on it – and then a cable would be connected from the recorder to the loudspeaker, and the sound would come out clear.

Yamen: But in the first periods of recording, everyone had a microphone, and they sang on big speakers, and there was a recording machine that captured the whole sound with the audience’s sound and everything?

Ahmed: Exactly.

Yamen: Do you have a copy of this cassette?

Ahmed: I can try to get it for you, but after the events that happened in Syria... they fought the shops, and they fought the people. I mean, I don’t want to touch too much on this topic. I want to talk about it, but it is a lengthy and unfortunate topic that will take too long to discuss. There is no end to it. I had once amassed a complete archive of heritage works from the region – a result of years of personal research and work. Once, when the officials came to me at my house, they asked, “What are these cassettes and video cassettes?” I replied, “They are recordings documenting the heritage and history of the Houran”. One of them then said to me, “You think you have a history”? He seized everything and burned it all in front of the eyes of everyone.

Yamen: There is no god but God! these were a mixture of your private archives that you told me you had recorded?

Ahmed: No, this was a project in which there were 300 hours of research work and interviews conducted across 7 years. When I’d go to Busra Al-Sham, I would sit with so-and-so, for example, I’d ask. “What would you say back then? What would you talk about?”

Say, for example, I get booked to sing in Busra al-Sham for a wedding celebration of Yamen Mekdad.

Yamen: Inshallah.

Ahmed: Inshallah, so the wedding of Yamen was scheduled from 8 pm to 12 pm. I would not go to Bosra al-Sham at seven! I would arrive at 2 pm and be there until 3 am. I would be the guest of a certain person, a liaison, who would connect me with a group of 3 or 4 people of interest who would describe their old chants, and their old parties, what they used to sing to the bride and what they sang to the groom, what they used to recite about the henna of the bride, and what they said about the henna of the groom, what they sang at the time of the Haseeda, what they sang at the time of rain, or when they wanted to ask for help from God for rain, and so on... I did this same work in villages across the region of the Houran.

So those four hours I’d record at Bosra Alsham, I would then go back home and summarize them in 20 or 30 minutes, and I had reached a total 300 hours of these summaries. The project was to look at the eastern Houran – let's say Bosra Alsham, like Samad and Samaj and Maaraba and Alsahwa and Teesya and Kharba, and Jebayb and all these places.

To research what they were singing, or what they used to say. I would make a comparison between the far east and the far west, in order to see the differences between the south and north, and between the customs of people in Bosra Al Sham compared to the those of Ahel Kefr Shams or Kefr Nashes. Around ninety percent of the chants and songs of Hourani people were similar, but with slight differences in dialect – not accent, and only ten percent difference between east, west, north and south. And after that, we even expanded our research into Jordan, and found the same heritage, customs and traditions in the regions of Irbil and Ajloun, and most regions in Jordan.

So, I then realized after going to Golan, and after going to Sweida, that the region’s heritage is the village’s heritage and the city’s. The borders that divide the regions, they were the ones who made Erbed and Daraa. But in the end, it’s the region’s heritage.

Yamen: This research of yours is wonderful, frankly. Great job. For example, in the Quneitra region, did the region of Jabal al-Arab or Suwayda in particular have their own genres from the mountains? Was there anything in common with genres from the plain?

Ahmed: There was a difference of course, a difference from the mountains.

Yamen: And with Quneitra?

Ahmed: With Quneitra, of course, we have the dabke in the mountains, which had a slower pace – way slower than the dabke of the people of the Houran. The dabke of Quneitra was faster than that of Huoran, and the Palestinian dabke was faster than the Hourani one...a faster rhythm.

Yamen: Let’s go back to the topic of the first cassette of yours. When it first came out, how did it feel that you now had a cassette?

Ahmed: It was a great thing! After only 3 or 4 days passed, I started getting booked, and I became a proper popular artist. Back in those days, the financial situation was so bad, so it was a bright window that had opened in the darkness. It was an indescribable feeling, this I tell you now – after having fallen behind quite a bit.

Yamen: Do you remember, for example, how many copies of this cassette were made? The idea is that we don’t get entangled in the details …

Ahmed: A lot.

Yamen: And what was the financial agreement between you and the distributor?

Ahmed: Nothing ! Nothing, nothing!

Yamen: He would copy and sell and distribute… and for the artist it was marketing (publicity), so as to publish your art and then…

Ahmed: Yes, yes, yes, for him, he didn’t do this for just anyone. He would act as if he’s doing the artist a big favor.

Yamen: Right. Like, “I picked you out of all these artists”…

Ahmed: Right. Like, “I published for you – you out of all these artists… and I made you”, and so on…

Yamen: Good, good. But for you, the profits would come… Other than publishing your art, were you performing at wedding parties outside of Herak at that time?

Ahmed: Yes, yes.

Yamen: So, after your first cassette, did you then rush to make another? What was the process of publishing further cassettes?

Ahmed: Until 2003, I mostly continued to deal with the same person, Abu Hasan – may god brighten your and his evening. With Mohamad Al Bahlul, we then turned into more of an academic kind of production. We got elevated a bit, and we began dealing with a company called Music Box International.

Yamen: Where was their main office?

Ahmed: In Damascus.

Yamen: You made several cassettes with that company?

Ahmed: I made several cassettes with Music Box International, of course. And we shot more videos – several music videos with the same company, and here, we had the first cassette release without almost any returns. They would say, “We’ll offer you the studio and musical instruments … all you have to do is come”. I mean, we talk here somewhat about the first cassette. The second cassette had something of a yield, but I didn’t care much about the return….rather about going viral. I mean, Music Box International had a wider popularity, and I started doing parties in Qatar, the Emirates, Kuwait, and parties in Lebanon and Jordan…

Yamen: During which years?

Ahmed: In 2002 and 2003 I went to Qatar. In 2004 I went to Emirates to perform.

Yamen: For their citizens, not Syrians?

Ahmed: No, no, no, for Qataris, Emiratis, Kuwaitis. Then, in 2004, we also went back to Jordan, because it was in my best interest to stay with Music Box.

Yamen: You felt the benefits of publishing at that level, in several Arabic countries.

Ahmed: Of course. They operated professionally. The first time I went to the shop of Mohammed Al-Bahlul, I didn’t know what a cassette tape was. I’d enter the biggest cassette shop in Herak, and they might carry 200 or 300 copies of various artists. But then, I entered the store of Mohamad Albahlul and saw Iraqi and Egyptian tapes, or tapes from Deir Al Zor or Aleppo, and Lebanese or Jordanian artists, and so on. I felt like I’d entered a production company. When I toured the Music Box facility, I noticed that even the area where their sound engineer would sit was bigger than the largest cassette store in Daraa. I felt I’d gone to a different world.

Yamen: Where was their main store, in Damascus?

Ahmed: It was in Damascus, in Al Kesweh, where they opened shop near the international universities, past Jebab.

Yamen: Past Jebab, you mean closer to Al Kesweh?

Ahmed: Yes.

Yamen: Who was in charge of it? Were they focused on the Hourani genre? What were they producing? Which bigger names other than you? How did the process happen, and how did you get to know them?

Ahmed: The owner of Music Box, Ahmed Abu Al-Huda, Abu Ali – who owned Music Box in Syria, the Emirates, and I think in Egypt too, were never previously focused on the Hourani genre. They were recording for George Wassouf. I mean, in short, when I say George Wassouf recorded with them, I don’t need to mention anyone else.

Yamen: It means the top.

Ahmed: Yes. At one of the concerts, I met Ahmed Abu Aode Abu Ali. He asked for my phone number and I gave it to him. He then asked me to pass by the company, and praised my performance – calling it beautiful. He asked whether we could make a deal so that we might do something with the genre that I was performing. I did not comprehend his words. I mean, in those days, I wondered what he was saying…that he wanted to publish this instead of that, and so on...

Yamen: When you sang there, what instruments were played?

Ahmed: Keyboard, ney, clarinet, and sometimes rababeh, drum, and derbakeh. But then when I ignored the matter, Abu Ali’s nephew phoned and asked for me. He told me that I was invited by Abu Ali, Ahmad Abu Aode – the president of Music Box company. I said I would go – no problem. He said he’d receive me on the following day at noon. The next day, we met, and he gave me a tour of the company. There was an underground cassette factory there, where they had duplication machines and where they manufactured cassettes and CDs. They also recorded DVDs… I saw disc drives as far as the eyes could see, and they were all in operation. I wondered what I was doing there.

Then, I was introduced to an Iraqi distributor – may god brighten your and his evening… where would he be now? God, I don’t know. His name was Ali Abu Al Zein – frankly, an artist of the utmost gentleness, with a great personality…one of the best I’ve ever met in my life. And also Ali Radwan, another Iraqi distributor; music distributors. I was nervous – sitting with academic people who distributed music for the likes of Mayada Henawi and George Wassouf.

I first sang to him a song that goes: "Oh dear, running in the wide openness, like a flower in water - I saw with my eyes descending, she became frightened, and bounced like the wind”… and then I stopped. But he asked me to continue, since he found the genre to be so beautiful. I asked what he liked about it. He said that though the genre was strange to him, and that it was the first time he’d heard it, that it felt familiar to him. He said that it sounded similar to a style in Iraq - but not exactly like Iraqi heritage – not at all – but he felt there was a soul to it, as if he was sitting in front of a popular Iraqi singer, singing a Hourani-genre song upon a wide horizon. So, he told me he wanted to release my heritage work. The big Iraqi academic and artist Ali Abu Al Zein liked my work!

We soon recorded the first cassette. Frankly, after the first popular release, the profit from the cassette was a bit different. Let’s say the profit was different, and the style too. We later included the oud, guitar, flute, drums, and so on. We started to include a complete musical band at the parties we’d perform. We’d go to Bosra Alsham, and in the first two hours, we’d play sahbe and dahiya and mejwez dabkeh (types of songs) and the last hour or so had to include the whole band – all academics.

Yamen: But a question here: The first two hours would feature dahiyat and sahja styles, and so on, but then the last hour and a half, the same band you had in the studio joined in with a guitar, drums and oud, and sang the songs that you recorded in the studios? The ones that you had adapted from traditional works, but with new distribution?

Ahmed: Exactly. For example, with Hourani sajha or sahiya songs, older people used to sing them in a beautiful and interesting way, but to the new generation they were boring. They wanted to hear fast-paced rhythms. So we merged the old tunes without ruining them. We’d add a beat to it that could please the old folks in the Houran, and at the same time, be widely accepted by the new generation.

If they wanted to dance to the beat of something baladi-styled, we’d make it faster. We would merge the beat with the poems and the melodies that older folks would orate in the past. In the end, the result was something unique and beautiful. Of course we tried to minimize the more vulgar Nubi-style lyrics, because in the end, the persevered heritage of someone is open to modification. For instance, one verse from long ago said: “…to ascend the stairs of God” … How would that work? That would have been utterly rejected.

Yamen: That was the heritage for hundreds of years before, or…?

Ahmed: Of course. Look, if there had been awareness in those days, of course no one would have dared to touch upon the subject of God, or going up the stairs to God.

Yamen: From a poetic standpoint, not a literal one…from an artistic perspective…

Ahmed: Or, “Walk to the ladder and ascend to God in the highs”… what is this nonsense? Neither America nor Britain have reached God like you claim to have. How are you singing about reaching God? I ask for forgiveness from the mighty God. These were the words we tried to minimize, as they were not from the Quran. Irrefutably, they were changeable.

Yamen: Ok, that was in the religious aspect, but in terms of describing women, was there anything?

Ahmed: Oh my God! There was a lot of squalor.

Yamen: What were the vile lyrics, according to you?

Ahmed: I laughed frankly at what they sang, ha ha, one of the songs went like this: “Oh, night of Saturday, oh, night of Saturday, when he wants to enter the house, he should enter, shut the drapes and lock the door, and start doing the one with beautiful eyes” I was in awe at how obscene the song was. There were songs of obscene description. Sometimes there would be a part where the actual woman, which the guy was describing, was standing there with joy, and all the people knew he was talking about so-and-so! He nearly removed all her clothes in his descriptions.

As for me, I did not like this kind of talk. When I sang about the Hourani plain or the customs and traditions of the people of the Houran, I found myself attracting a larger group of people. In one of the songs, I’d sing about the exploits of the Hourani people, or something from the history of the Houran. Something like: “A flower in the morning, and plains full of jasmine, and flowers and Itra” (a plant called Itra), and "Itra and Kasoum” – these were plants and flowers – “…and Narcissus and laurel”, etc. All of that touched the conscience and the reality of the people. So I went in that direction, and felt I belonged there.

Yamen: Like you said, it addresses the largest segment of society. So as for the vulgar singing, it would only address a small section of society, and would have hindered you from reaching the general public, so you decided it would be better to reflect the heritage morally and historically, and address the general people of the Houran, and the world.

So, How did the keyboard and electronic music enter the scene?

Ahmed: The keyboard came before I joined with Music Box International - the drums, guitar, etc. came after…

Yamen: Electric guitar, or acoustic?

Ahmed: No, acoustic. Sometimes we took them with us according to what the situation required. We brought a bass guitar with us and we brought a guitar soloist with us.

Yamen: The electric or the regular acoustic?

Ahmed: No, the acoustic one. And a bass guitar sometimes. When the arena was big, we’d have to bring a bass guitar. It gave momentum and made a bigger sound.

Yamen: Very nice. Thank you very much for your participation. I am frankly so happy I’m doing this interview.

Ahmed: My dear, Mr. Yamen, may God bless you with happiness.

Yamen: When the keyboard entered the scene, how was it received, and how quickly did it spread? And how did the world accept it, and in particular, how was it integrating the keyboard with the traditional music? Was it something acceptable or unacceptable to people?

Ahmed: Not at all. In the beginning it was absolutely rejected, and it was difficult for us to use it. When it was first brought to parties, it wasn’t accepted easily. It was difficult. For two whole years, we would take the keyboard with us, and they would stop us from playing it. So we would bring a reserve of a spare drum.

Yamen: What year was this?

Ahmed: This was in 1998, 99, 2000.

Yamen: Later, how did they come to accept it?

Ahmed: The majority of those who had an absolute refusal regarding the keyboard wanted to keep following the rhythm of the darbuka percussion, which speeds up and slows down, and flows with the dancing of the people. But as you know, the way the keyboard works, the rhythm of it follows a rigid structure, so the majority of people felt constricted by that. You were restricting them to something regimented, and they couldn’t feel as flexible or comfortable with that. They would think, “We want to dance as we like. We want to reverse back, and go against the rhythm. It needs to follow us, not the other way around! And if we reverse and go back, we change it, and it needs to change with us”.

Yamen: Nice. You just summarized electronic music, which is exactly as you described. You need to behave according to it – not the other way around.

Ahmed: After that, they started to become more musically cultured. For example, one of the elders might ask to set the pace to 114 beats, Then someone who was 70 or 80 would ask to set the pace at 110 or 112. You’d ask him about it, and he’d wonder what you were talking about, and what rhythm meant, or pace, or musical symbols, or what structures meant. Frankly, he didn’t know. But to tell the truth, he could feel he was doing something musical – something we would call art.

They didn’t know whether this rhythm was called laf, or that one called baladi, but they would be able to recognize each rhythm we were playing – be it a dahhiye or baladi rhythm, or saaidi. When they began dancing, you’d think they’d had a hundred rehearsals in order to be able to flow with the rhythm as they did. But the truth is, they were natural artists, who hadn’t studied art or music, but were able to follow with the rhythm at every hit, nonetheless. They followed it perfectly – even the structures.

When you sit with the elders of the Houran – your father, grandfather and grandmother (and I can bet on this), all of the Hourani people sing the musical structures correctly, but without knowing what they were singing. Still, they sing all of them.

For example, if you ask an elderly woman about the times they used to make kebabs, or about the groom’s henna preparation. You see, all the women in the village used to gather together and make kebabs to eat. The next day, they would sing folklore songs in more than one rhythm. But had you asked this elderly woman what kind of tune it was, she wouldn’t be able to answer you – just that it was like that, and that it’s the way they would sing. For example, the hajiniyeh used to be known in all of the Houran, not as lyrics, but as melodies or tunes. For example, listen to this song and try to figure out the rhythm; “Oh, you who have traveled, and the month or reunion is approaching, we want the far one…” In that song, the old folks sang hijaz without knowing that the rhythm was hijaz. They’d learnt it from their predecessors.

We knew that there were rhythms when we would get from every art as a melody and structure - turns out they had folk styles they would use. For example, genres like ala saffa, bayat, or hijaz, and even nahawand and aajam – they would sing all of them. It was human innateness. For instance, with the hajiniyeh rhythm, you just have to imagine a camel walking. Imagine that the camel is stomping. That’s what is behind the sound of the hajjaa tune.

Yamen: Give us an example of hajjaa, please?

Ahmed: Sure, let me just put down the phone…just give me a few seconds.

Yamen: Take your time.

Ahmed: I need to arrange it. Just a few seconds, with your permission, sir.

For example, they based a lot of things on the gait of camels… let me find a way to focus. Hopefully, it will be proven here: “Oh, shepherd, your word is our command. Oh, golden one, why leave us? Love can’t be bought. It’s not for sale or debt“. This was recited to the rhythm of the camel. We tried more than one rhythm, but none worked except for the rhythm of the camel (hejen), so they used to sing it to that rhythm..

Yamen: Do you have a general idea of how many tapes and CDs you have made in your recording career in total? or is it uncountable?

Ahmed: No, it is uncountable, Why? Because each cassette was different from the other, according to the circumstances of the party, and according to the location of the party. One or two cassettes were made at each party. If we were to count them all, we would be in the Guinness Book of Records.

Yamen: Ok, what about studio albums?

Ahmed: In the studios, they recorded about 12 albums. We produced one each year.

Yamen: Were all those with Music Box?

Ahmed: No, there were some made with Music Box, and some I recorded in Kuwait with Palestinian artists. There were also some I recorded in Jordan. It was a mix.

Yamen: Mark is asking about (a cassette company in Sweida called) Sawt El-Ghad … What was your experience with Sawt El-Ghad ? What do you know about them, and who are they?

Ahmed: The radio that was popular during the Syrian revolution?

Yamen: No, apparently Sawt El-Ghad was a production company. There used to be a lot of cassettes in the market from them, including yours. Some of Mark’s cassettes from the Houran region have “Sawt El-Ghad” written on them. It’s the company’s name.

Ahmed: Oh, these companies. I don’t know them. They would take the tapes and distribute them, but there was never a formal agreement with them. For example, Sawt El-Ghad would reproduce these cassettes, such as my album “Ya Halla”. Afterwards, we noticed that it increased our total revenue after each album. There were no big losses. I considered everyone who took and copied a tape, even if it was pirated, or sold through Sawt Al Ghad, or whoever, I considered them to be promoting me. They may earn 5 or 10 pounds from it, but in the end, it would be good for me. For example, through two concerts abroad, all the returns from the cassette that I may have not wanted to give to Sawt Al Ghad, or other such companies, would not bring me the revenue of two concerts outside Syria.

Yamen: OK, so you weren’t really concerned with this topic, or giving yourself a headache about it, because you saw it, on the contrary, as being beneficial and not harmful, with the real benefit being non-materialistic through your performances abroad…

Ahmed: It is the opposite of these current times. Currently, I am looking for things to be documented. For example, I dropped an album about a month ago, and it cost me approximately $1500-2000. The second album too. The studio charged a rate of 300-400 dinars, and then another 1000 dinars for the second album. I uploaded both of them to my YouTube channel, knowing that I probably won’t get revenue. I mean, I will definitely get paid less, but I would rather have something documented, recorded and published than to get money for it.

Yamen: These last two studio albums you just mentioned… are they among the twelve albums you counted before? Were they with Music Box? And then you mentioned working with Jordan and Kuwait? Who were some of the companies that you dealt with there?

Ahmed: Just Music Box.

Yamen: And the rest of the albums you recorded with Palestinian singers?

Ahmed: After the last cassette we recorded with Music Box, which came out in 2010, the revolution happened, and I no longer recorded albums at all. I mean, I had to produce at my own expense, the many songs of the revolution, and I don’t know if you received any of them or heard them. My only interest was to produce revolutionary songs.

Yamen: So this was the first job you mentioned in Amman?

Ahmed: I mean, now almost everything I remember, I’m trying to bring back anew.

Yamen: In terms of censorship, you mentioned you did censor yourself, but in the 1990s and early 2000s, did you feel restricted at all by state censorship, or did this affect you at all?

Ahmed: No, not at all.

Yamen: Do you have any idea, for example, about Music Box or before that, Al-Bahloul productions, and how many copies they used to press of your albums? Or did you not know these numbers?

Ahmed: I recorded the second edition, which was produced exclusively by a young man from here Herak, and from Lahen Almustaqbal. The first edition would be 200,000 copies, on average.

Yamen: Almustaqbal? Was this in the days of Bahloul? Or Music Box?

Ahmed: No, it was later! Music Box.

Yamen: You produced it with Music Box, then Almustaqbal came to copy it? How did this process take place?

Ahmed: It was taken exclusively by Music Box, then they stipulated that it must be 200,000 copies to be released on the market.

Yamen: Was this the first album with them, or the second?

Ahmed: The second .

Yamen: Did they handle the distribution of the first album?

Ahmed: I don’t know, but they gifted me around a thousand copies, which I distributed to friends and loved ones.

Yamen: So, for the second album, they pressed 200,000 copies exclusively, and it was distributed in the Houran region in general? Or where was it distributed?

Ahmed: In the Houran and Damascus, and the Damascus countryside, in Quneitra, in Sweida … they were the ones who were responsible.

Yamen: Do you still have copies of those albums? And aside from the research archive you mentioned you’d been working on before, is your personal archive currently with you?

Ahmed: Yes, it is.

Yamen: With cassettes and CDs?

Ahmed: CDs, but I will try to get them to you digitally, and send them via WhatsApp, hopefully.

Yamen: Including almost all of your work?

Ahmed: I can gather a huge amount for you.

Yamen: We discussed how you became popular outside of Syria. I mean, through Music Box International, in Qatar, UAE, Kuwait, Lebanon and Jordan. This was during which years, approximately?

Ahmed: Well, we did Lebanese concerts through getting booked at the Palmyra Festival. There was a Lebanese band from Baalbek who liked our performances and our folklore, so these guys booked us …

Yamen: Were you with a band, or were you there with other singers?

Ahmed: We were there with a folklore group. More than one band. in Daraa Governorate, there was the official folklore band, there was Al-Bashayer band, the Houran Plains band – all of these bands we had cooperated with. In Qatar in 2002, we had a concert for a Qatari citizen, the Emirates concert in 2004 for an Emirati citizen, then we returned to the Emirates more than once for Emirati citizens. Then we worked for Syrian or Jordanian residents. Kuwait hosted the largest part of the concerts, and Jordan, and praise be to God, all are still active.

Yamen: Tell us a little about the period of festivals and folk bands that you mentioned...the Houran Plains band, the folk Music ensembles in Daraa..., you used to do these at the Palmyra Folk Music Festival and the Bosra Folk Music Festival, and you were participating with them as part of the band or…?

Ahmed: No, I participated with them as a singer. I had my job to sing, and they performed the rehearsals and dances for such events as the Spring Festival, Flowers, Palmyra, Bosra and official parties that we had. In the province of Daraa, the Folk band was the first approved band... the Houran Plains band, and the Al-Bashayer band.

Yamen: OK, and in terms of musical and cultural competition in Daraa, what was the climate between you and the rest of the musicians, producers and singers? Was it competitive, participatory, or cooperative?

Ahmed: It was possible that others wanted to compete, but as for me, I didn’t imitate anyone. I would go to Bosra Alsham as Ahmed Al Koseem – not to present Abu Bakr Salem or Mohammed Abdu, or so and so. The people of Busra al-Sham wanted me to give them something by Ahmad Al Koseem. For them, the idea of heritage, or presenting heritage for all of the singers present in the Houran was totally rejected. I mean, they were leaning towards Gulf, Lebanese, or coastal songs, Homs songs. Why was that? Why? Why do I have to imitate the coast?

I mean, there is no problem. I‘d go to McDonald's, or I’d order a KFC meal, and I’d go Burger King for every meal, but I love Hourani food, like mlihi or mujdara - they are essential to me! I mean, I’d go to Bosra al Sham, sing two Lebanese songs, I’d sing an Egyptian song, I’d sing a song from the coast, I’d sing a Homsi song, but I am the main and official dish that must represent the heritage of the Houran!

It was not competitive for me, because I was almost at the beginning of my career. I presented the heritage, and it was received well by the people. They loved it with my voice, and people welcomed anything new, even if it seemed old fashioned on first impression. People would judge by the first impression. There were singers who later sang Hourani songs, truth be told, I don’t know the songs. I tell you, people would think the singer was copying Ahmed Al Koseem!

Yamen: But, for example, maybe this is not imitation, but influence. The singer was influenced by you. and he liked you, and was doing something from your school of singing …..

Ahmed: You didn’t get what I meant! I didn’t memorize all of the Hourani heritage! For example, say Yamen is a singer… and he starts singing a song from the Houran, and mimics Ahmed Al Koseem! I don’t know the song, I really don’t know it, but Yamen wants to go in that direction. He found a good popularity - he found good acceptance among the people. He wanted to keep singing the Hourani heritage, but when they turned to the Gulf, or Egyptian, Yemeni, or Lebanese songs, the coastal songs, the Aleppo songs, It was closer to me. The credit is due to God. I have come a long way in this issue - not a year, nor two, nor three. I have come a long way and spent a lot of time in this profession, and recorded many of these songs that people accept and want.

Yamen: So since you were one of the founders of the revival of heritage and its dissemination in weddings and festivals, you were not competitive. But in general, were there people that were less experienced and wanted to be part of the competition?

Ahmed: Yes, of course, it is not an understatement about the guys who sang in the Houran. They were all talented young people with beautiful voices. They are all respected, but I tell you there was no competition. I mean, I was not going on to Superstar (the singing show) to compete with Wadih Al-Safi’s song. I would sing, and he would sing, and we’d see who sings better! I made something for myself. I maintained a certain level and kept on doing it, praise be to God, and I’m still here, by the grace of God. I do not consider myself to be in competition with anyone, or that anyone is against me, because I am presenting myself, not someone else!

Yamen: And when did the issue of intellectual property start? As you mentioned, first, for you, there were companies like Almustaqbal and such… but when did you start to focus on the issue of intellectual property, and how did it evolve over time?

Ahmed: We tried to document any melody that was old, but that was developed and owned by us. Or if we changed the lyrics of an entire melody, for example, if there are words that infringe on modesty, we might revise the lyrics if they relate to something that can cause pain. I mean, there might be an old melody I like a lot, but if I wanted to sing that song with the original lyrics, I might create a sort of scandal between the Houran and Sweida, and stir up arguments between, for example, one clan and another clan. So we would try to adapt the words.

But by God, you asked me a very important question, and by God, if we stayed as we were in the days of Muhammad al-Bahlul and the days of Sawt al-Ghad and these sort of companies, at least it was all somewhat respectful. But after YouTube and Facebook, everything you say has become common knowledge for everyone. There is no respect or appreciation, unfortunately. I mean, you will work on producing an album, and within five days, someone else comes and copies it verbatim… unfortunately! I mean the exact same work with the same lyrics, very unfortunately!

Yamen: Are you currently registering the intellectual property of your songs or not?

Ahmed: No, at the moment, no. But hopefully in the future.

Yamen: What is your point of view; On the one hand, the cassettes allowed anyone with limited capabilities to record their songs and concerts and publish them – because there was no such possibility previous to the tape medium – and also, what music that might have been programmed and broadcast on the radio was still very limited. With all of this in mind, was the cassette the ideal musical medium in Syria, and for the region?

Ahmed: There is a proverb that says: “If it were not for tastes, the goods would not be sold.” I mean, a scenario is possible where there’s a singer in the artistic community in Damascus who doesn’t please the people of Bosra Al Sham. But if his work reaches Europe, people there might like it, right? Cassettes and CDs opened the horizon of possibilities to everyone – a wide horizon! Look, you have a record! The audience and the listeners are to be the judges. Are you not committed (bound?) to censorship or to a committee that wants to examine you? Are you valid or not?

The cassette is a double-edged sword. For me, I do not claim to be the quintessential singer of the Houran, the Golan, or the Hourani plains, no, no, no! In my view, I am presenting a progressive version of the artistic traditions our parents and grandparents used to have in the past.

But now you are hearing a lot of discord. These days, I visit TikTok or YouTube or Facebook, and of course, if I see something I like, I follow it. But there is some content on these platforms – terrible things… God forbid, some of the songs you hear even hurt your ears! It is undoubtedly a double-edged sword – like peace at home – you can peel an apple with it, or you can slaughter people with it. We can turn it into a tool that’s useful, or turn it into a direct tool of terror. Either you start promoting something classy that people hear and people accept, or you promote something that corrupts an entire society.

I described the problem. It is not a cassette problem, nor is the sword a problem in itself. The problem belongs to the one who holds the sword. Why did he use it? I use the phone for two hours, not to scroll through clips, God forbid. I use the phone for an hour or two for something useful that I can benefit from as well. The problem isn't in the phone, it's the holder of the phone. The problem is: Did the one who took the knife use it to chop parsley, or to chop people? And the one who produced the cassette as a way to convey a thought... is the thought a poisonous thought, or a means by which to deliver a message?

Societies may not have previously heard about the Houran, or seen the heritage of the Houran, or how the Hourani women dance dabke, or how Hourani men dance, or how Ahmed Al Koseem sings. Therein lies the issue. The cassette is a gift, yet people turned it into a curse. The CD is the same, and so on. …

Yamen: For VCDs, DVDs and MP3s, would you say it’s the same principle? But when it came to quantity and popularity, and who got an opportunities through radio and television, these mediums were a means to help people that had something to present and publish.

Ahmed: Sure, sure, the best way!

Yamen: How did you adapt to the arrival of YouTube and the Internet? We discussed the days when production companies who would copy the albums still had a sort of inherent respect. They benefited from it, and would benefit others. But also in general, you received followers in the hundreds of thousands around the world…

Ahmed: Sure, sure - most of the parties we book now are from those contacting us from Europe, wanting to have a celebration for their kids. I can't go to Europe, but they'd ask how much it would cost, and I'd tell them. We'd agree. Then suddenly, someone visits my YouTube channel or Facebook page and sees my work, and asks me to replicate that. Of course, social media has benefited me a lot. It was a personal motivator, more than money. You’d see people following you while singing about alienation, or the Houran, or Syria. Someone would post a comment. I'd thank them, and it would turn out they're a professor at Sorbonne university. YouTube and Facebook elevated us to a higher level.

I currently talk to a Jordanian critic living in the States, and I learn from him. I communicate with poets and get songs, and I work with composers to get tunes. There’s someone living in France named Wael Alqaq, who is originally from Sweida – imagine; he established and leads a band called Nashama. Greetings to him. I think the violinist lives in Turkey, and the rababa player lives in Sweden. So, each of us records a contribution from his respective country of residence, and in a week or ten days, we produced a full body of work for the Nashama band, with each of us in a different country.

Yamen: It’s a good use of technology, in that you can connect the world and do something of value! So, after the year 2011, in your opinion, after the revolution, how did this issue affect the spread of Syrian artists in Sweden, or those in Turkey, France, Britain, Jordan, and those in the Gulf? They did not return to Syria for various reasons. What is your view of this issue and how it will be? Did culture become affected in Syria in general, and the Houran in particular?

Ahmed: For all the people of Syria who are now in the diaspora as a whole - when each of them was inside Syria, they were not fully realizing their potential. People were marginalized. Some of them were marginalized, while others were thinking only about a bite of bread. Then, creativity only appeared as an option to artists who would reach, as they say, stardom.

Only after they left Syria did this change. I know a young man with us whose name is Hussam Assaf – may God bless your and his evening – he didn’t have a chance in Syria. A beautiful, wonderful artist … a first-class oud player and guitarist! It was his immigration to Canada that gave him success. He evolved! Hussam did not get his chance in Syria or in Jordan. Rather, he was not able to record a single song, because he did not have money to pay the rent for his house. But when he left for Canada, or to America, he became financially comfortable and healed himself, and worked hard on himself, and returned to work, reprogramming from the first and anew, a big star!

Yamen: When you are in a society that supports culture and art, it gives you opportunities to spread …

Ahmed: Sure, they nurtured him! This guy knows how to play the guitar. His voice is sweet. He’s an oud player. They have him now. We have nothing! What do you get? And there are many other people, I did not know that they sang in the first place! Voices! Suppressed voices! They now have a chance to present themselves. I have a friend, brother and artist, named Ayman Al Salik – a great artist. He sends me news about his son Aram, and says, “I want you to listen to your friend.” I asked him, “you mean Aram?” He comes back to me with a recording of his nephew’s voice. I ask: “Is this authentic? Is this the actual voice of your nephew I’m hearing?” He confirms it is. What a beautiful voice! So the issue was to give the turn to the next one, the era of the permanent position is over. It hurts to think of this issue. One has to give a chance to the next young person in line.

Yamen: As they say, look at the full half of the cup. As you said, true, there were a lack of opportunities – but as a result of spreading around the world, from Canada to Australia, to Europe and to the rest of the world, the Syrian person is creative abroad.

Ahmed: If you look at the results that the Syrians obtained, this year, and the year before it, and the year before that; One obtained first place in Jordan, another in Kuwait, and the Emirates, first place in California, in Miami, someone got a patent for this, someone presented such and such, and so on… Oh brother, my father does not give me my chance, so I find my chance at the neighbors? I mean, Hossam Assaf in Syria did not get his chance until after living a long life in Canada? Firas Imam, didn’t get his chance? Muhannad Al Qasim didn’t get his chance? So many big voices ... creations, activities, inventions - it’s all unfortunate!

Yamen: The full half of the cup is that, praise be to God, those who went abroad were able to do what they wanted to do. I mean, they are still living in the transitional phase – even through the next ten years, they will do something unprecedented, I am sure.

Ahmed: It is a stage of harmony between one group of people and another; people that differ in customs and traditions and everything – and when it’s all harmonious you’ll see a lot of creativity.

Yamen: A hundred percent, and it will reflect on Syria at home, and we will lift each other, hopefully, so we can advance and develop and heal the great wound.

Ahmed: Inshallah.

Yamen: Sir, thank you very much for your time. It was a wonderful interview, frankly. I learned a lot from it, and the conversation continues. But since we have almost reached the end of the interview, do you have anything you would like to add before we close?

Ahmed: First, I am thankful to you and brother Mark, and for the opportunity given to me today through you. We objectively discussed a topic that has been marginalized. From those originally concerned with this topic, I am very happy that I met such a person … Yamen. Yamen, I know you are concerned with the subject, but I am very happy, and by God, I’m delighted that today I find such a person residing in Britain, like brother Mark, who is more interested in the subject than the Syrians?! I don’t regret this. This pleases me!

Yamen: Because we are all brothers in humanity.

Ahmed: Exactly, because for me, when I say that Mr. Yamen is concerned with the heritage of the Houran, it’s because he is the son of the Houran. I don’t say I regret that Mr. Mark is concerned with this. I’m pleased that Mark is looking into something such as heritage. He isn't looking into folklore, he’s looking into something called the people’s civilizations. The civilizations aren’t exclusive. The civilization of the Houran is not exclusive to the sons of the Houran. Today, Mark is reminding me of this. It is my honor.

Yamen: It’s our honor Sir, believe me.

Ahmed: May God give you a long life.





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